Wednesday, December 27, 2006

Founders Fallacy Filters Into Southern Baptists of Texas Magazine

It appears that friends of the Founders have floundered their error into the Southern Baptist Texan, a publication of the conservative pro-SBC Southern Baptists of Texas. Thanks to the grace and providence of God, Brother Bob Ross has corrected the error for Flyswatter readers.


Bob to Charles:

I think it was B. H. Carroll who said something like "Error can circle the earth before Truth gets its shoes on."

Some of the "Flounderism"/Tom Nettles error about Spurgeon has recently cropped-up in the Southern Baptists of Texas Convention's Texan magazine. The SBTC is the conservative Baptist convention in Texas, formed a few years ago when a number of churches broke with the Baptist General Convention of Texas.

In the December 18, 2006 issue of the SBTC's Texan publication, an article by correspondent Melissa Deming, circulates some misleading information derived from a Flounders' "related ministry" headed by Brother Jim Eliff.

Brother Jim is an adamant opponent of the public "invitation system" method for sinners to confess Christ as Saviour, and in his writings about Southern Baptists' being an "unregenerate denomination," Jim has misappropriated C. H. Spurgeon -- as if to get some "aid and comfort" in opposition to invitations (see Revival and the Unregenerate Church Member, pages 12, 13).

Deming, the Texan writer, refers to Eliff's website article entitled, Southern Baptists, an Unregenerate Denomination, and says:

"Eliff cites the example of C. H. Spurgeon, who led thousands to Christ without an altar call. 'His message was his invitation'" (Southern Baptist Texan, Dec. 18, 2006, page 10).

This cunningly devised representation of Spurgeon is after the order of other Flounders, such as Ernest Reisinger (Worship, pages 102-105), Tom Nettles (By His Grace and For His Glory, page 420), as well as the modern "father" of anti-invitationalism, Iain Murray (Revival and Revivalism, page 410). They all give a distorted image of Spurgeon in regard to public "appeals," "inquiry rooms," etc.

We have a more accurate representation of Spurgeon on our website at --

Recently, we also demonstrated Spurgeon's aggressive efforts to bring sinners to "decision" in the post of September 19, 2006. Here again is some of the material quoted from Spurgeon, advising his students:

Do not close a single sermon without addressing the ungodly, . . . aim distinctly at immediate conversions; . . . speak personally both with the concerned and the unconcerned, and be yourself doubly upon the watch to address individuals . . . . . In addition to this, hold numerous inquirers’ meetings, at which the addresses shall be all intended to assist the troubled and guide the perplexed, and with these intermingle fervent prayers for the individuals present, and short testimonies from recent converts and others. As an open confession of Christ is continually mentioned in connection with saving faith, it is your wisdom to make it easy for believers who are as yet following Jesus by night to come forward and avow their allegiance to him. [See Lectures to My Students, Second Series, pages 186, 187, 190].

Spurgeon said, "The Calvinism of some men is not the Calvinism of John Calvin, nor the Calvinism of the Puritans, much less the Christianity of God." (New Park Street Pulpit, Volume 5, page 368).

Likewise, the methodology proposed by some who are affiliated with the Flounders is not the evangelistic methodology practiced by Spurgeon, nor by D. L. Moody (whose methods Spurgeon approved), nor by the Evangelists whom Spurgeon sponsored and sent forth from the Tabernacle. See Evangelism at CHS' Tabernacle at --

In regard to D. L Moody's method of having sinners to stand for prayer, Spurgeon said:

Spurgeon was a great friend and promoter of D. L. MOODY. Here is what Spurgeon said about Moody's method as to "public response" --

"I believe that it is a great help in bringing people to DECISION when Mr. Moody asks those to STAND UP who wish to be prayed for. Anything that tends to separate you from the ungodly around you, is good for you. Now, if you have given yourselves to Christ, tell it out; for, after that, you cannot go back to the world, you will feel that the vows of the Lord are upon you. When Caesar landed on a certain shore, he burned his boats behind him, so that his men might know that they must conquer or perish. I advise you to do likewise; burn your boats by a clear and explicit declaration." (MTP, 1897, page 516).


At Thursday, December 28, 2006 10:44:00 AM, Blogger volfan007 said...


i am glad that you are around to show the truth of things when people are trying to go away from good and sound practices.


At Friday, December 29, 2006 12:07:00 PM, Anonymous Bob L. Ross said...

volfan007 said...


i am glad that you are around to show the truth of things when people are trying to go away from good and sound practices.

I appreciate your interests, and I also want to express appreciation for Charles in affording me the privilege to make comments. I would probably never have posted comments on any blog if I had not providentially become acquainted with Charles and his blog last March.

Can you imagine to what extent I would be permitted to post on any other blog -- especially the Hybrid Calvinists blogs? Charles tried posting on some of the blogs and was advised to "get your own blog." They probably regret making that suggestion! [See How The Calvinist Flyswatter Came To Be at --

You probably have also encountered similar rejection. They don't want to hear very much by way of any serious contradiction to their views.

At Monday, January 01, 2007 3:24:00 PM, Blogger volfan007 said...


tom ascol will not let me post comments on his blog. so, yes, i know what you are talking about.


At Wednesday, January 03, 2007 6:56:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

I like how you used the phrase "providence of God" when you clearly deny His supreme providentialness (for lack of a better word) in the first place.

At Thursday, January 04, 2007 2:12:00 PM, Blogger volfan007 said...


i dont see bob denying Gods providence. he just doesnt believe in fatalism as the extreme calvinists believe.


ps. anon, you ought to read peter lumpkins post of tasters and experiencers on

At Thursday, January 04, 2007 5:22:00 PM, Anonymous Bob L. Ross said...

Anonymous said...

I like how you used the phrase "providence of God" when you clearly deny His supreme providentialness (for lack of a better word) in the first place.

I simply have no idea as to what you refer. Do you, Charles?

The only things I recall being "denied" on this blog are the errors of Reformed and Hybrid Calvinists. And I do believe it was Providential that I came into contact with Charles so as to contribute some of those materials which deny the specified errors.

At Monday, January 08, 2007 12:59:00 PM, Anonymous Bob L. Ross said...


Dear Charles:

I noticed a rather superfluous, if not disingenuous, remark by Tom Ascol on his blog:

Sometimes I am asked why we don't advertise our church as a "Reformed" Baptist church and why, even though we are affiliated with the SBC, we don't make a bigger deal of that. I always give the same answer. I really have no desire for Grace Baptist Church to be known as "Southern Baptist" or "Reformed." Rather, I would love for us to be known as "Christ-saturated."

Ascol's remark provoked me to wonder, "What about the term,'Founders'?"

On Ascol's Founders website, it is rather saturated with "Founders." There are references to Founders Friendly Churches and Friends, Founders Board Members, Founders Journal, Founders Study Center, Founders Conferences, Founders Press, Founders Fraternals, Giving to Founders, Founders Audio, Founders Ministers Search List, -- all sorts of Founders this-and-thats. It is Founders-saturated.

In fact, Tom even has an explanation about "what is meant by a Founders church," how a preacher may "find a 'Founders church' to pastor," and how a church can "find a 'Founders pastor'"?

It appears that Tom is more "saturated" with "Founders" than any other saturation. A nearby Founders Friendly church in the Houston area has recently even renamed itself, Founders Baptist Church. It sponsored a Founders Conference last year and the featured speaker was a Founders Friendly "born again before faith" advocate, Thomas Schreiner, a teacher in Al Mohler's Southern Seminary "pre-faith regeneration" hatchery.

Tom's remark called to mind the "Reformation"/"Restoration" movement led by Alexander Campbell in the early 1800s. Campbell frequently expressed himself negatively about the use of "names" or labels, but he certainly was not an example of practicing what he preached.


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