Dr. Tom Nettles to speak at Presbyterian church and conference
Dr. Tom Nettles, professor at the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary, is a featured speaker at the upcoming "2006 Apologetics Group Conference on Reformed Theology."The conference will be held October 6-7 at Draper's Valley Presbyterian Church in Draper, Virginia.
Dr. Nettles participation in this conference is another sad reminder of how far the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary has departed from the beliefs of the churches of the Southern Baptist Convention. Nettles is a big promoter of the "regeneration before faith" theology that is strongly linked to Reformed theology. Such beliefs are rejected by nearly all Southern Baptist churches, yet Nettles and Southern Seminary have no problem promoting such beliefs even if they have to do so in Presbyterian churches.
When will Southern Baptist churches wake up and stop paying the salaries of professors and seminaries which do not believe what the churches believe? Only time will tell.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
For more information on Tom Nettles and Southern Seminary, see Invitations: John Broadus vs. Tom Nettles;
Tom Nettles Relies on Theologian Who Rejected Regeneration Before Faith Theology;
Is Al Mohler Responsible for the SBC's Drop in Baptisms?;
Southern Seminary Welcomed Wayne Grudem Who Believes Regeneration Can Occur Before Physical Birth; and
Southern Seminary Welcomed John Frame Who Teaches Salvation Occurs By Believing Nothing
posted by Charles @ 10:16 PM
21 Comments:
NETTLES CUDDLES WITH THE PEDOS
charles said:
Nettles and Southern Seminary have no problem promoting such beliefs even if they have to do so in Presbyterian churches.
Do you suppose, Charles, that the majority of those who will listen to Nettles at that Draper's Vally Presbyterian church in Virginia will be those who were
"regenerated" in their infanccy?
If so, maybe Nettles could do like Dr. Broadus, preach the Gospel to them and give an invitation for them to accept Christ and publicly come forward to profess their faith.
Thanks for the information. Nettles preached at a deacon ordination at my former church. He is awesome!
I'm making travel plans tomorrow.
WHY WE CANNOT ENDORSE SOUTHERN SEMINARY
Bob to Charles:
I am including the following in an article I am sending today to my email list about the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary in Louisville, Kentucky:
1. SBTS promotes the Hybrid Calvinist theory on "regeneration" (new birth) -- which is a mixture of Creedal Calvinism on the Holy Spirit (monergism) with Hardshellism ("born again before faith"). At least one professor has an article on Internet advocating the "born again before faith" heresy held by "Reformed" writers such as Shedd, Berkhof, Frame, Sproul and Hardshell Baptists. >>http://calvinistflyswatter.blogspot.com/2006/03/southern-baptist-seminary-professor.html<<
2. SBTS leadership helps promote those who advocate Hybrid Calvinism along with "baby regeneration" by participating in conferences and meetings held by the Hybrid Calvinist Presbyterians.
3. SBTS personnel participates in the Founders Ministries, which is also advocating the Hybrid Calvinism theology by Berkhof and using speakers in their conferences who are baby regenerationists.
4. SBTS has welcomed guest speakers at the Seminary who advocate this same Hybrid heresy. >>http://calvinistflyswatter.blogspot.com/2006/05/southern-seminary-welcomed-john-frame.html<<
5. SBTS professors (Tom Nettles, at least) oppose using public invitations in church services, which is another characteristic of advocates of Hybridism. >>http://calvinistflyswatter.blogspot.com/2006/07/invitations-john-broadus-vs-tom.html<<
6. SBTS professor Tom Nettles was reported to have invited America's #1 Hardshell Primitive Baptist, Lasserre Bradley, Jr., to the Louisville campus, and neither Nettles nor Mohler will reply to requests as to "why" such a heretic was invited to SBTS.
7. SBTS seems more inclined to promote the Hybrism of most "Reformed" or "Presbyterian" sources than the views of Baptists and their Confessions of Faith.
For these reasons we cannot endorse the Southern Baptist Theological Seminary.
i would not want to go to southern seminary right now either. it would just be an indoctrination to five pointism....that's all it'd be.
volfan007
Brother Bob, Hello!
You wrote, Do you suppose, Charles, that the majority of those who will listen to Nettles at that Draper's Vally Presbyterian church in Virginia will be those who were "regenerated" in their infancy.
It would seem so.
The theme for the conference is "The Family: God's Weapon for Victory," and one of the sessions is, "Aiming our Arrows: Training Covenant Children." Another session is "Evangelizing our Children: The Do's and Don'ts."
It doesn't say which session Nettles will be preaching. What do you think Nettles will say when the Presbyterians start talking about their "Covenant Children"? Or maybe he's actually teaching that session? It wouldn't surprise me.
Charles
"COVENANT CHILDREN" HERESY
Charles said...
The theme for the conference is "The Family: God's Weapon for Victory," and one of the sessions is, "Aiming our Arrows: Training Covenant Children." Another session is "Evangelizing our Children: The Do's and Don'ts."
It doesn't say which session Nettles will be preaching. What do you think Nettles will say when the Presbyterians start talking about their "Covenant Children"?
My guess would be, Charles, that the pedos at Draper's Valley will be just as wed to their "covenant children" baby regeneration heresy after hearing Nettles as they were before they heard him.
He is more "theologically correct" than to take money to preach at this Conference, then preach against the most fundamental heresy of the people paying him to speak.
At the same time, he probably does not have enough of whatever Paul had when on Mars Hill, who -- without being paid for his services -- preached against the idolatry of the Greeks by whom he was invited to speak.
As for Scott Morgan's comments, he has another matter to take care of before he gets my attention -- and that is, when is the debate to which Scott challenged me going to be held?
WHAT'S WRONG?
Jeffro said...
Once again, your rhetoric is inflammatory and useless. Please explain to me what is wrong with a man accepting an opportunity to teach or preach, even at a Presbyterian church.
Evidently, Nettles is preaching for the Presbies since he agrees with them on "born again before faith." The "wrong" is in the promotion of false doctrine, especially in a church theologically committed to this false doctrine in relation to "baby regeneration."
Would Nettles preach for the Campbellite conference on "baptism by immersion," and keep his yap shut about the heresy of "baptismal remission of sins"?
Amazing
So Charles since you now state that Presbyterians are not our brothers and sisters in Christ because of secondary issue - who are our brothers and sisters in Christ?
You and Bob and others seem to have a God Syndrome/Papist disorder where it is your way our the highway - when did God appoint you judge and jury?
I can only come to the conclusion that you would only fit into the camps such as the Catholic Church or Mormon Church. You sure don't fit into the Christian Church!
Bob
To bad you don't believes in the Sovereignty of God - A God who sent his Son to "seek and to save that which was lost" - it pretty much states that it is a very specific seeking and save and that it is determined by him who knows his lost sheep. It clearly states that he will not lose one of his own. How much clear must it be from Genesis to Revelation he is clear - some are his known before time and space and some are not!
To bad you don't believes that faith is the gift given to the lost sheep being the conduit of grace given, grace received, grace applied, by God through the Holy Spirit etc....
You are so self/man center in your theology. My God is a BIG God yours seems so small.....
Bob when did the Southern Baptist Seminary ask for your endorsement?
Just don't think they would find you someone needed to give them and endorsement - your sphere of influence seems extremely limited consisting as I see it as about a party of 2, 3, maybeeee 5 max sooooooo!
bob,
you make some very good points.
volfan007
From the baptist faith and message article on Regeneration.
"Regeneration, or the new birth, is a work of God's grace whereby believers become new creatures in Christ Jesus. It (regeneration) is a change of heart wrought by the Holy Spirit through conviction of sin, to which the sinner responds in repentance toward God and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ. Repentance and faith are inseparable experiences of grace.
While I know reasonable people can disagree, this BFM article seems to teach regeneration preceding repentance and faith.
If "IT" is regeneration. Which it obviously is, because that is THE subject of this article.
Right or wrong, the plain grammar of the sentence is that sinners respond to regeneration with repentance and faith.
I think if you want to get these guys out of the seminaries, you are going to have to deal with the BFM, first.
Coolio, Hello!
Where have you been?
Brother Bob Ross dealt with the BF&M on this blog in his article, DOES THE "BAPTIST FAITH & MESSAGE" TEACH THAT
ONE IS "BORN AGAIN BEFORE FAITH"? [04/14--2006].
He said, "if you hold to the pedo-regenerationist theory, you do not hold the BF&M and therefore are not a Southern Baptist in doctrine!"
Charles
Anonymous, Hello!
You said, So Charles since you now state that Presbyterians are not our brothers and sisters in Christ because of secondary issue - who are our brothers and sisters in Christ?
Where did I say that?
The point I am making is that Southern Baptists want to pay for Southern Baptist seminary professors, not Presbyterians-in-Southern-Baptist-clothing.
Mohler and Nettles seem to love to preach and support the Presbyterians and their spawn, the "born again before faith" Reformed Baptists. I just believe our seminary presidents and professors should align themselves with Southern Baptists if they are going to take Southern Baptist money.
Charles
REPLIES TO A FEW COMMENTS
Anonymous said...
So Charles since you now state that Presbyterians are not our brothers and sisters in Christ because of secondary issue - who are our brothers and sisters in Christ?
Bob's reply:
Both Charles and I have affirmed that all are children of God by faith in Christ Jesus. As for the Presbyterians, at least some of them allege that that they became children of God when they were "regenerated" in babyhood.
Anonymous said...
To bad you don't believes in the Sovereignty of God
Bob's reply:
You probably have not read my past comments on this blog, for if you had, you would realize that I adhere to the Baptist Confessions of Faith on the Sovereignty of God.
What I have refuted on this blog is the false teaching that men are "born again before faith" -- which doctrine conflcts with the Sovereignty of God in regard to His sovereign, foreordained way of salvation by the Holy Spirit's using the Word of God to create faith in Christ.
Anonymous said...
Bob when did the Southern Baptist Seminary ask for your endorsement?
Bob's reply:
Back in 2000 when the Baptist General Convention of Texas was planning to defund the Southern Seminary and others, we received numerous requests to support the seminaries against the opposition of those in the BGCT who wanted them defunded.
We campaigned against the defunding, and went to the BGCT convention in Corpus Christi and voted against the proposal, but it passed anyway. If you wish to read how strongly we contended against the BGCT leadership at that time, go to
http://members.aol.com/
baptistsoftexas/
Coolio said...
I think if you want to get these guys out of the seminaries, you are going to have to deal with the BFM, first.
Bob's reply:
We have shown that the BF&M and other Baptist confessions conflict with the perversions of the
the Hybrid Calvinists on regeneration. See --
http://www.blogger.com/
comment.g?blogID=23354593&post
ID=115552282855231786
DOES THE "BAPTIST FAITH & MESSAGE" TEACH THAT
ONE IS "BORN AGAIN BEFORE FAITH"?
Nothing in the BF&M indicates that Southern Baptists hold to "born again before faith." It is plain that the BF&M has "regeneration" as "part of salvation," and it says that "There is no salvation apart from personal faith in Jesus Christ as Lord." Therefore, there is "no regeneration" apart from faith, according to the statement of faith.
When we put this statement beside the "regeneration precedes faith" theory of Shedd, Berkhof, and Sproul, THERE IS NO COMPARISON! These Pedobaptists even have BABIES REGENERATED by a "Direct Operation" of the Spirit without the use of Truth as a "Means," and before the babies are even capable of "understanding" and "believing" in Christ. In fact, some of them believe the babies are "regenerated" in the womb before birth!
They also claim that adults are regenerated by a "direct operation" of the Spirit without the necessary use of Truth as the instrumenal "Means" and before the sinner "understands" and "believes" the Gospel.
My brother, if you hold to the "born again before faith" theory, you do not hold the BF&M and therefore are not a Southern Baptist in doctrine!
[posted on the Calvinist Flyswatter by Charles @ 4/15/2006 11:51:00 AM 76 comments]
http://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogID=23354593&postID=115552282855231786
SAME DUPLICITY?
charles said . . .
I just believe our seminary presidents and professors should align themselves with Southern Baptists if they are going to take Southern Baptist money.
It appears, Charles, that essentially the same thing is being done today at Southern Seminary by the current Hybrids that was done by the likes of Dale Moody and the Neo-orthodox profs of the last century. Moody is condemned by current profs as duplicitous for his heterodoxy, yet are the present Hybrids any less duplicitous than Moody?
STRANGE HYBRID FIRE?
Bob to Charles:
You probably know, Charles, about the "Strange Baptist Fire" blog. I recently saw that site and it seems to be misnamed. It might more appropriately be called "Strange Hybird Fire."
It has Gene Bridges on "staff," and it links to James White. If that is not Hybrid enough, they have an item by your "buddy," UPS' most famous blogging "Calvinist," Timmy Brister, on "What Is a True Calvinist?" Timmy is also on "staff."
This article by Timmy is favorably commenting on a pamphlet written by -- you guessed it -- a baby regenerationist, a Presbyterian Pastor of the PCA. Who better to define "true Calvinism" than a baby regenerationist?
It is obvious that "Strange Baptist Fire" is really "Strange Hybrid Fire." I'm not surprised that Hybrid Gene Bridges is a part of this. Nor Timmy, for isn't he a student at the Southern Hybrid Seminary in Louisville?
STRANGE HYBRID FIRE
Bob to Charles:
I noticed, Charles, the following "delivery" by the UPS Hybrid Calvinist, Brother Timmy, on the "Strange Hybrid Fire" blog:
August 16th, 2006 at 3:30 pm
As good men like Gene and Dr. Nettles among among others are slandered by men like Bob Ross and Charles, let us be careful NOT to respond to inflammatory, sinful comments. There is nothing redemptive or Christ-honoring in the discussion over there, so I would just want to encourage you to refrain from reading or reacting to their shameful comments.
I wonder, Charles, why Timmy himself was not "careful not to respond to inflammatory, sinful comments," and did not "refrain from reading and reacting to their sinful comments"?
Is this another case of "do as I say -- not as I do"?
Does this imply that Timmy's readers are so immature that Timmy has to instruct them in how to behave? -- or, does Timmy just have an inflated pious opinion of himself, as is the case with many novices?
PROSELYTING BY HYBRIDS
Bob to Charles:
Scott Morgan gave us a good example, Charles, of how the Hybrid Calvinists operate. He tells of a couple who obviously were saved under non-Hybrid circumstances at the FBC of Daytona, but were proselyted to Scott's Hybrid church after reading Tom Nettles' Hybrid Calvinist book.
My guess is that at least 99 out of a hundred of the members in Founders and "Reformed" Baptist churches probably professed salvation elsewhere, then later were proselyted to the parasitical Hybrid Calvinist churches.
Scott said:
We also had an interesting guest Sunday. A former member from FBC Daytona Beach visited our church and his girl friend who both now have seen the truth of the doctrines of grace. They are in their mid 20's. They told me how they started reading Southern Baptist history about three years ago and realized how Southern Baptist have been heading down a wrong road( Theologically) for sometime. They both said how the scripture is so clear about Calvinism. They will be back next week and I plan on being in their homes this week to talk more. Both of them said that Dr. Nettles book By His Grace and For His Glory really showed them how they had been wronh on SBC history and the scriptures for sometime.
bob and charles,
i would submit to yall that most, if not all, of the members of five point churches were saved somewhere else then led into five pointism later. the five pointers love to go after other christians and lead them into the same extreme that they are in.
thats my observations of the five pointers i know personally.
volfan007
volan007,
As I see it your view observation is lacking.
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