Monday, September 22, 2008

Conferences vs Revival?


***TOM ASCOL, of the Flounders, says:

"One of the evidences of the doctrinal reformation that we are in is the proliferation of doctrinally sound conferences over the last two decades. Dozens of such conferences are held each year across the USA. Two years ago a friend counted over 50 that were scheduled within a 12 month span. While conferences are far from the the essence of reformation, they do provide something of a barometer to measure the growing interest in the doctrines of grace in our day."

I think Tom could have added that such conferences have come on the scene in relation to the demise of evangelistic revival meetings which brought so many souls to Christ during my lifetime. They seem to be a "barometer" of the lack of interest in such evangelistic meetings by those who are obsessed with "interest in the doctrines of grace in our day." I wonder, has Ascol ever had a Revival Meeting at Grace Baptist Church in Cape Coral, Florida?

Conferences, seminars, fellowships, etc. have indeed been plentiful the past few years, but why so few, if any, Revival meetings where an emphasis is placed on getting the Gospel to the ears of lost sinners? -- meetings during which Christians are urged to make an extra effort to witness to the lost and get lost relatives and friends to the meetings?

I was saved in such a meeting myself, and know many others who were saved in Revival meetings. I have yet to hear of a conference or seminar where lost souls were brought to Christ.

The true FOUNDERS of Southern Baptists were marked by the practice of an evangelism which included emphasis on Revival meetings. Modern professed "Founders" are known for "conferences."

***ANOTHER KNOCK AT THE "SINNER'S PRAYER" -- The Hybrid Calvinists have favorite targets at which they shoot their fiery darts from time-to-time. One is the "Sinner's Prayer," which receives some jostling on the strange "Strange Baptist Fire" blog.

For those who have not read it, you may like to read how C. H. Spurgeon used the "Sinner's Prayer" at his church in London.

Opposition to use of the "Sinner's Prayer" is one of the characteristics of Hybrid Calvinism.


At Monday, September 22, 2008 6:22:00 PM, Blogger Charles said...

Brother Bob, Hello!

Along with the rise of Hybrid /Hyper /Neo /Extreme Calvinism at seminaries such as Southern in Louisville, these conferences are a factor in the decline of baptisms in the SBC.

You have already written how "church planting" to the Flounders equates to splitting a SBC church, taking one side of it, and declaring it a "church plant." Many of these conferences are nothing more than church splitting conspiracies.


At Monday, September 22, 2008 11:14:00 PM, Blogger Charles said...

Brother Bob,

You said, "The true FOUNDERS of Southern Baptists were marked by the practice of an evangelism." Yes, and this is why the true FOUNDERS of the SBC are nothing like FLOUNDERS such as Tom Ascol, Tom Nettles, Tim Brister, etc.

If my memory serves, didn't James Boyce have D.L. Moody to preach at Southern Seminary? For the life of me, if Moody were alive today, I can't imagine the FLOUNDERS having him at one of their conferences, can you? Just look at how Brister has insulted Billy Graham on his blog!


At Tuesday, September 23, 2008 12:05:00 PM, Blogger Bob L. Ross said...


Charles said:

If my memory serves, didn't James Boyce have D.L. Moody to preach at Southern Seminary? For the life of me, if Moody were alive today, I can't imagine the FLOUNDERS having him at one of their conferences, can you?

Exactly. The fact is, according to the book, Theologians of the Baptist Tradition edited by Timothy George, "when D. L. Moody held an evangelistic crusade in Louisville in 1888, the five-thousand seat tent was set upon seminary property with seminary professors and students serving as counselors in the inquiry room."

Modern "Flounders" neither approve of Moody's type of evangelism nor the "inquiry room." You would probably never have seen Tom Nettles and Timmy Brister among the "counselors" at a Moody meeting at Louisvile!
And you would probably never see Al Mohler allow such a meeting to be held at Louisville Seminary!

I think it is obvious that the historical Founders are not in the same genealogical tree as our modern Flounders.

At Tuesday, September 23, 2008 1:37:00 PM, Blogger Bob L. Ross said...


Not only was Southern Baptist Seminary Founder James P. Boyce a friend and supporter of D. L. Moody and his evangelism, so was Founder John A. Broadus. What a contrast between the true Founders and the current Flounders.

We carried the following item awhile back:

Not only C. H. Spurgeon and J. P. Boyce, but John A. Broadus was a good friend of Moody's, dined at Moody's home in Northfield, Massachusetts, and preached for Moody's Northfield Conferences. These items are brought out in A. T. Robertson's "Life and Letters of John A. Broadus."

One of the letters Broadus wrote to W. D. Powell says this of D. L. Moody:

"Louisville, Feb. 26, 1895: I am glad to hear about your proposed Missionary Conference, and to learn that our honored friends, Mr. Moody and Mr. [Ira] Sankey are expected to attend. I have never heard Mr. Moody speak without gaining fresh and wholesome impulses in the right direction. He is one of THE MOST USEFUL AND JUSTLY HONORED CHRISTIAN MEN OF THE AGE, and I shall be exceedingly glad if he can give you his help" (pages 428, 429).

Probably the reason why the modern Flounders disdain Mr. Moody is due to the disdain for the great evangelist by Iain Murray of the Banner of Truth. It seems that every chance Murray gets to denigrate Moody, he attempts to so in his writings, which are so popular with the Flounders.

The pedobaptists [baby baptizers] disdain for Moody dates back to the
19th century when Moody went to Great Britain and was instrumental in the conversion of hundreds of Presbyterian pedobaptists, in both Scotland and later England, who supposedly had been "born again" as babies. Even quite a number of their ministers followed and supported Moody, and it so upset Hybrid Calvinist John Kennedy that he feared his pedobaptist denomination might be destroyed.

Kennedy wrote extensively against Moody, but Spurgeon came to Moody's defense. Iain Murray, however, favors Kennedy's Hybrid Calvinist opposition to Moody, and disagreed with Spurgeon. See my article, "Hypers vs. Spurgeon and Moody."

The difference between Moody and Murray is that Moody made converts to Christ, Murray makes proselytes to Hybrid Calvinism. Moody's preaching brought revival, Murray's writings criticize revival. Moody was active in personal soul winning; Murray is active in the denigration of soul winning.


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