Sunday, June 15, 2008

Conferences, conferences, conferences!


Flounders' assistant to Tom Ascol, Timmy Brister says:

"We need fresh perspectives and a renewed passion to plant churches, revitalize dying ones, and bring in a younger generation committed to the local church."

These words seem to be very appropriate in regard to the Flounders' movement. On their website, the Flounders have said:

"Founders Ministries is designed to help churches understand and return to the faith and practice of their forebears. Among those great truths are the Doctrines of Grace, the reformed understanding of how the Sovereign God elected, redeemed, regenerates, and preserves His own."

Their website also says:

"Founders Ministries, Inc., is a ministry of teaching and encouragement that seeks to promote both doctrine and devotion expressed in the Doctrines of Grace and their experiential application to the local church, particularly in the areas of worship and witness."

One searches in vain to find any emphasis in the Flounders upon the Great Commission, soul winning, and establishing churches of new converts. The primary purpose of the Flounders since beginning in 1982 has been to make proselytes to the "Reformed" Pedobaptist version of "the doctrines of grace."

To accomplish their purpose, for years the Flounders have held a National conference and 6 Regional conferences, and they also have 22 "Founders Fraternals." That is a total of 29 yearly conferences/fraternals.

These have not produced converts to Christ nor churches. They have wasted a lot of time and expense and served to create "conference fatigue" on the part of many.

Now, Brister says, the Flounders need "fresh perspectives and a renewed passion . . ."

One might wonder what these "Flounders Friendly" Pastors and Churches could have accomplished in winning souls and establishing churches had they devoted all that time and expense, which they have burned attending conferences and fraternals, on efforts in their own communities?

It seems that the primary accomplishment has been the development and extension of the Flounders as a sect. The great purpose of the Lord's commission has not been fulfilled by the Flounders' conferences and fraternals.

We indeed hope that this month's National conference will be one in which there are "fresh perspectives and a renewed passion" to engage in our Lord's commission in contrast to the original purpose of the Flounders.

Iain Murray, a "Flounders Friendly" Pedobaptist who has for years directed The Banner of Truth, in his 1995 book, Spurgeon v. Hyper-Calvinism, says this in the Preface:

". . . it is apparent that the recovery of doctrinal Christianity is not necessarily our chief need today. . . . it may well be that the time has come when we need to be much more familiar with a rather different emphasis in Spurgeon. . . . it would appear that the priority which soul-winning had in Spurgeon's ministry is not commonly seen to be our priority.

"The revival of DOCTRINE has scarcely been matched by a revival of EVANGELISM. . . . it may well be that we have not been sufficiently alert to the danger of allowing a supposed consistency in doctrine to OVERRIDE THE BIBLICAL PRIORITY OF ZEAL FOR CHRIST AND SOULS OF MEN.

"Doctrine without usefulness is no prize. As Spurgeon says, 'You may look down with contempt on some who do not know so much as you, and yet they may have twice your holiness and be doing more service to God.'"

Perhaps the most appropriate words for the Flounders, who are perhaps best known for emphasizing their version of the "Doctrines of Grace," are these words of C. H. Spurgeon who said:

"I believe, most firmly, in the doctrines commonly called Calvinistic, and I hold them to be very fraught with comfort to God's people; but if any man shall say that the preaching of these is the whole of the preaching of the gospel, I am at issue with him.

"Brethren, you may preach those doctrines as long as you like, and yet fail to preach the gospel; and I will go further, and affirm that some who have even denied those truths, to our great grief, have nevertheless been gospel preachers for all that, and God has saved souls by their ministry.

"The fact is, that while the doctrines of election, final perseverance, and so on, go to make up a complete ministry, and are invaluable in their place, yet the soul and marrow of the gospel is not there, but is to be found in the great fact that 'God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit,' and so on.

"Preach Christ, young man, if you want to win souls. Preach all the doctrines, too, for the building up of believers, but still the main business is to preach Jesus who came into the world to seek and to save that which was lost."

[Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 13, Year 1867, #786, excerpts from pages 706-708].


At Monday, June 16, 2008 9:37:00 AM, Blogger Rick said...


Isn't that funny.

All unreformed churches and unreformed Christians need to be straighted out.

And, Ascol is just the guy to do it.

I'm going to suggest that Ascol is eventually going to be lambasted but good by the rest of the SBC for trying to control every one else's life.

I think if Ascol wanted to help us he would give up his cloth and join the military. Let him serve two or three tours in Iraq. And, take Timmy "Squirrel Man" Brister with him.

At Monday, June 16, 2008 1:41:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...


You all are the funny ones.

The SBC does need a good straightening out but then maybe the condition of it is proof God is dealing with it. Ascol and others that I know may be like those in the Old Testament sharing the truth to those who are unable to hear and God is bring judgment or could it be they bring Good News! Could it be!

You really are sick with your suggestion about the military. What would that accomplish unless you are suggesting.... sick. On the other hand it also reveals your limited mental ability but then I say that is evident with this website. Oh, limited, bad word here, you show the modern day mans ignorance at best and stupidity/sinful state at worse - I do believe the latter fits!

Charles or Bob our the split personality website person I know you won't put this out there but your eyes are all that I care sees it of course maybe you will? Either way I hope God gets ahold of your heart because if not well maybe Joel will help you feel good about your state!

At Monday, June 16, 2008 4:18:00 PM, Blogger Bob L. Ross said...


Between the Times
is a new blog by Faculty at Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary.

The blog is emphasizing a "Great Commission Resurgence," and we are impressed by their recent articles.

Check it out.

At Wednesday, June 18, 2008 9:37:00 AM, Blogger Charles said...

Brother Bob, Hello!

Anonymous said, Either way I hope God gets ahold of your heart because if not well maybe Joel will help you feel good about your state!

Brother Bob, doesn't anonymous here sound much like our old friend Scott Morgan? I wonder what happened to ol' Scott and his church he "planted."


At Wednesday, June 18, 2008 11:52:00 AM, Blogger Bob L. Ross said...


Charles said...

Brother Bob, doesn't anonymous here sound much like our old friend Scott Morgan? I wonder what happened to ol' Scott and his church he "planted."

Hello, Charles! Glad to see you are "back." Been missing you!

I surely hope that was not Scott, and based on my last few phone calls from him, I don't believe "anonymous" is Scott. In fact, Scott seems to be a "put out" with some of the brethren himself, if what he tells me is true. He also reports that his church is out there in the "highways and hedges" seeking to win the lost, which is really nice to hear. I hope he wins a thousand, if not more. He could become the "Johnny Hunt" of the Hybrids! He used to work with Johnny, so he might still retain some of that "first love" for lost souls!


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