Thursday, April 24, 2008

Flounders' numbers game


It appears from Tom Ascol's Flounders' blog that he is just "itching" to churn out more repetitious propaganda spin based on the recent 2007 Annual Church Profile report for the Southern Baptist Convention -- as if playing the "numbers game" will serve the cause of the Flounders parasitical proselyting sect within the SBC.

This is perhaps a ventilating personsal "escape mechanism" of sorts for Ascol since it might create some degree of solace for the lack of any substantial statistics he can report on behalf of the Flounders' sect. To my knowledge, the Flounders organization has not made a statistical report since their beginning in the 1980s, and may have little to nothing to report by way of conversions of the "elect" to Christ and their baptisms.

So far as I know, the Flounders group has never made any report on how many first-time professions of faith and baptisms have taken place in Flounders-Friendly churches, conferences, or other meetings. From my personal observation of Flounders' groups, they have little to nothing to report other than related to proselytism.

Actually, it may be that the only signficant "number" which they could possibly report for all these years might be the number of proselytes and small new churches which have been "planted" as a result of some type of split or division in a Southern Baptist Church, probably instigated by Flounders' "reformed" propaganda and propagandists.

I doubt very seriously that they could report many (if any) first-time professions and baptisms which were the result of evangelistic outreach. Ascol and the Flounders, as we have noted before, have an aversion to reporting statistics in contrast to the practice of C. H. Spurgeon at Metropolitan Tabernacle. Thus, it might serve Ascol somewhat as a psychological "therapeutic" to piously nitpick the SBC statistics, emphasizing the "negatives," for it seems to be true that "misery loves company." One might wonder, however, what consolation is to be found by bemoaning the stats of a denomination which some of the Flounders have branded an "unregenerate denomination" -- a denomination which probably can take "credit" for the professed "conversions" of most of the Flounders themselves!

In a recent Flounders' circular, promoting their 2008 National Conference, reference is made to the fact that "a stagnant pond suffocates the life in its waters," -- and if we may judge of the Flounders' own stagnancy in the area of evangelism, soul winning, and the baptism of new converts, the waters of this sect may be seriously contaminated with all sorts of decay.

The one thing the Flounders must be most concerned about is not the non-Calvinists in the SBC, nor the "caricatures" of the Flounders' brand of "Calvinism," nor blogs such as the Flyswatter and SBC Tomorrow -- but what they have most to fear are the "cancers" which fester within the movement itself which tend to denigrate compassion for lost souls and evangelistic enthusiasm to win them. They can't thrive simply by making proselytes who were originally won to Christ by alleged "Arminians," and who later became "reformed" by reading Banner of Truth books and other writings promoted by the Flounders.

Iain Murray of the Banner of Truth has observed:

". . . it would appear that THE PRIORITY WHICH SOUL-WINNING HAD IN SPURGEON'S MINISTRY IS NOT COMMONLY SEEN TO BE OUR PRIORITY . . . it may well be that we have not been sufficiently alert to the danger of allowing a supposed consistency in doctrine to OVERRIDE THE BIBLICAL PRIORITY OF ZEAL FOR CHRIST AND SOULS OF MEN" (Spurgeon vs Hyper-Calvinism, page 14).

Those must be rather stinging words coming from the virtual "father" of the Flounders' movement who exerted the greatest influence on Ernest Reisinger, founder of the Flounders.

Do the following words remind you of any modern day "Calvinists"? --

". . . it will be seen that those who never exhort sinners are seldom winners of souls to any great extent, but they maintain their churches by converts from other systems. I have even heard them say, 'Oh, yes, the Methodists and Revivalists are beating the hedges, but we shall catch many of the birds.' If I harboured such a mean thought I would be ashamed to express it. A system which cannot touch the outside world, but must leave arousing and converting work to others, whom it judges to be unsound, writes its own condemnation." (C. H. Spurgeon, Lectures to My Students, Second Series, page 187, Pilgrim Publications 1990 edition).

Notice here what Spurgeon says about statistics.


At Thursday, April 24, 2008 1:20:00 PM, Blogger My Daily Bread said...

Amen. Well said!

God bless


At Thursday, April 24, 2008 3:10:00 PM, Blogger Will Shin said...

"flounders?" Unless this is a blog of 5 year old brats who need spanking, the name-calling/mocking speaks a great deal about your own immaturity and character in Christ.

At Thursday, April 24, 2008 4:17:00 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said...

You guys are so......

Many of us who are not only SBC but are also Reformed, and partner with Founders would say to you that our difference sure doesn't keep you from taking our money and counting us among the number.
SBC counts as many as they can and takes as much money as they can even if there is disagreement in the camp. Our convention is "drunk with money, numbers and methodology" but some of us are "drunk with the Gospel Truth, Right Theology, and being a True Church"

At Thursday, April 24, 2008 9:42:00 PM, Blogger Bob L. Ross said...


Over on the Flounders' blog in the "comments" on Ascol's blog about SBC statistics, the loquacious Gene Bridges says:

"I would also point out that the PCA in some areas is growing because Baptists are leaving Baptist churches where they feel like strangers. They have chosen to become Presbyterian because they feel the Gospel is more important than ecclesiology, because the doctrines of grace believed and taught is more important than baptism. . . . The big joke in the PCA is that a large portion of their new members are Baptist Calvinists."

If Bridges is telling the truth, this is consistent with what we have said about the PCA and other Hybrid Calvinist pedobaptists, namely -- that it appears that the only way they sustain their membership is by (1) adding babies to the church roll, and (2) adding proselytes who have adopted Hybrid Calvinism.

In other words, they don't make converts and add members thru Gospel-preaching evangelism to lost souls. They say they believe in the "free offer of the gospel," but they don't seem to be interested in going into the highways and hedges to extend the Gospel to the unsaved. They just "preach to the choir" full of Hybrid Calvinists.

If it were not for their babies and the proselytes, they would be deader than they are already. "Imonk" filled in as preacher for a pedo church in Kentucky which did not have any child-bearing members, and even he finally had to "throw in the towel" and quit.

Unfortnately for the Flounders, they don't baptize babies and add them to the church. How long can they depend on proselytization only?

At Friday, April 25, 2008 12:02:00 PM, Blogger Bob L. Ross said...


Will Shin said...

"flounders?" Unless this is a blog of 5 year old brats who need spanking, the name-calling/mocking speaks a great deal about your own immaturity and character in Christ.

Webster defines
"floundering" as "struggle to move or obtain footing; to proceed or act clumsily or ineffectually . . . (because of poor study habits)."

If you will read our various critiques of the self-styled "Founders'" claims and assertions, you will perhaps see that it is highly inappropriate to associate the names of true founders, such as those pictured on the Flounders' website, with the so-called "Founders Ministries."

There are just too many contrasts to give credibility to the claim of Tom Ascol and his associates that this "ministry" represents what those Baptists of the past believed and practiced.

Therefore, I believe the word "Flounder" is appropriate to use in application to the clumliness and ineffectualness of this alleged "ministry."

Also, the use of "Flounders" serves to make a "statement" that we have no respect for Ascol & his friendlies' abuse and misuse of the names of men such as Boyce, Broadus, Spurgeon, Dagg, etc.


Post a Comment

<< Home