Saturday, November 10, 2007

Do Presbyterians Survive By Infant Baptism?

The below is from Brother Bob Ross and factually demonstrates the results of following the heresy of infant baptism by using the PCA's own statistics. An amazing piece of work.

Charles
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DO PRESBYTERIANS SURVIVE BY INFANT BAPTISM? [11/02--2007]

I have often raised the question as to how long the Hybrid Calvinist Presbyterians would survive if their churches only added members who first became believers before being baptized, as Baptists practice.

Former Houston Oiler NFL football coach, Jerry Glanville, once confronted a Referee on the sidelines during a game, and remarked to the Ref that "NFL" meant "Not For Long" for his coaching career if the Referee kept making bad calls like the Ref had just made against Glanville's team.

Scott Lamb, who has high praise for the PCA (Presbyterian Church in America), has recently given some attention to the statistics of the PCA denomination, and they seem to indicate that the PCA's survival would be "Not For Long" were it not for infant baptism.

See Scott's article Conversion & Calvinism, Evangelism & Ethics? reflections on baptism statistics from the MBC [Missouri Baptist Convention] and the PCA [Presbyterian Church of America] at --
http://www.thoughtsandadventures.com/

Scott points out that the PCA's own statistics for 2005 reveal the following:

>>
2005 entire PCA Total number of infant baptisms 5,279
Total number of adult baptisms 2448
Total baptisms in PCA 7,727


2005 entire PCA Average baptisms per church (including infants) 4.8

2005 entire PCA Average adult ("believers") baptisms per church 1.5

>>

From a Baptist perspective, this means that of every 4 to 5 persons baptized and added to the PCA churches, at least 3 to 4 of them are unsaved infants. Is it any wonder that apostasy has been so prevalent among Presbyterians over the years, resulting in numerous splits and splinters? Is it any wonder that Presbyterians oppose aggressive evangelistic efforts as used by Baptists to get adults converted?

Yet we find that many of our modern "Calvinists" such as the Flounders, "Reformed Baptists," Tom Nettles, Tom Ascol, Mark Dever, and R. Albert Mohler like to play footsies with the pedos.

"Sacramental efficacy and baptismal regeneration, ALL SPRING FROM THE FIRST ERROR OF INFANT BAPTISM" (C. H. Spurgeon, New Park Street Pulpit, Volume 6, page 168).

6 Comments:

At Saturday, November 10, 2007 12:32:00 PM, Blogger logos said...

I do hope that readers will not confuse your analysis of the stats with my own thoughts on the subject.

Scott Lamb

 
At Sunday, November 18, 2007 10:10:00 PM, Blogger Rev. said...

You do realize that there is a vast difference between "error" and "heresy," don't you?!?

Quite a bit of gall to state, "From a Baptist perspective...Is it any wonder that apostasy has been so prevalent among Presbyterians over the years, resulting in numerous splits and splinters?" There are well over 100 Baptist denominations. Also, your comment about the opposition to adult evangelism is simply untrue about our brothers in the PCA.

 
At Friday, November 23, 2007 11:13:00 AM, Anonymous Bob L. Ross said...

SOFT ON PEDOS?

Scott Lamb wrote:

I do hope that readers will not confuse your analysis of the stats with my own thoughts on the subject.

Well, Scott, the readers were referred to your link, and there is no excuse for anyone's making this mistake. You apparently desire to "walk softly," but we are not of that number who tip-toe in the presence of Pedos lest we step on their toes. Their heresy is one of the worst in the history of professed Christianity, and they deserve every "knock" they get.

We are of the "Spurgeon school of thought" on pedobaptism:

>>
I do not know, an error which causes the damnation of more souls than that at the present-time. There are thousands of people who firmly believe that they shall go to heaven because they were sprinkled in infancy, have been confirmed, and have taken the Sacrament. Sacramental efficacy and baptismal regeneration, all spring from the first error of infant baptism.

Had they kept to the Scripture, had the church always required faith before baptism, that error could not have sprung up. It must have died before the light of the truth, it could not have breathed, it could not have had a foothold in the Christian church. But one error must lead to another—you never need doubt that. If you tamper with one truth of Scripture, he that tempts you to meddle with one, will tempt you to tamper with another, and there will be no end to it, till, at last, you will want a new Bible, a new Testament, and a new God. There is no telling where you will end when you have begun.>> -- New Park Street Pulpit, Sermon #307, page 168.


SPURGEON again:

>>
Some imagine that faith comes by hereditary descent, and they act upon the supposition. Hence, in certain churches, birthright membership is thought to be a proper practice, and the child of a Christian is thought to be a Christian.

In some other churches, though the theory would not be stated in so many words, yet it is practically accepted, and children of pious parents are regarded as scarcely needing conversion. The text is forgotten which saith that the heirs of salvation are born, "not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, but of God."
>>

Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Sermon #1031, page 39.

 
At Friday, November 23, 2007 11:19:00 AM, Anonymous Bob L. Ross said...

ERROR & HERESY?

Rev. said...


You do realize that there is a vast difference between "error" and "heresy," don't you?!?

Yes -- I suppose it is an "error" for a Baptist to think that pedobaptism is an "error" and not a "heresy."

 
At Friday, November 23, 2007 11:31:00 AM, Anonymous Bob L. Ross said...

UNTRUE?
Rev. said...


Quite a bit of gall to state, "From a Baptist perspective...Is it any wonder that apostasy has been so prevalent among Presbyterians over the years, resulting in numerous splits and splinters?" There are well over 100 Baptist denominations.

Also, your comment about the opposition to adult evangelism is simply untrue about our brothers in the PCA.


Unfortunately, a lot of the divisions among Baptists have resulted from contamination from the pedobaptists. Even Arminius, Alexander Campbell, and Joe Smith were hatched in pedo nests.

As for the PCA, their stats speak for themselves. Their churches survive primarily on account of their baptizing babies rather than making converts from the lost world by means of preaching the Gospel.

 
At Wednesday, December 05, 2007 11:01:00 AM, Blogger Turretinfan said...

(A) "As for the PCA, their stats speak for themselves."

If they did, comment would be unnecessary. But you felt comment to be necessary, therefore they do not.

(B) "Their churches survive primarily on account of their baptizing babies rather than making converts from the lost world by means of preaching the Gospel."

In what way, one wonders, does having babies as members help a church to survive?

Answer: it doesn't.

The title to your post must be answered in the negative.

-Turretinfan

 

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