Are You Sure You Like Spurgeon?
In this article, Brother Bob Ross asks the "born again before faith" fans: "Are you sure you like Spurgeon?" Enjoy.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Are You Sure You Like Spurgeon?Bob to Charles:
I am rather certain, Charles, that the name of Spurgeon will probably be invoked a number of times at the
"Building Bridges" meeting where the professed "Calvinists" will meet to dialogue on some of their differences. There is an article on some of the Hybrid Calvinist web sites which asks,
"Are You Sure You Like Spurgeon?" and I think the same could very well be asked of many of those who will be at the
"Bridge to Nowhere" conference. The following from Spurgeon will demonstrate what I mean.
But before giving this quotation, I want to point out that
Spurgeon had only one Conference in all his years on the
Doctrines of Grace, and that was in 1861. During my lifetime, I think I can safely say I have known of several hundred such conferences. It seems that modern "Calvinists" have
"gone to seed" on having conferences.
SPURGEON: >>
I believe, most firmly, in
the doctrines commonly called Calvinistic, and I hold them to be very fraught with comfort to God's people; but
if any man shall say that the preaching of these is the whole of the preaching of the gospel, I am at issue with him.Brethren, you may preach those doctrines as long as you like, and
yet fail to preach the gospel; and I will go further, and affirm that some who have even denied those truths, to our great grief, have nevertheless been
gospel preachers for all that, and
God has saved souls by their ministry.The fact is, that while the doctrines of
election, final perseverance, and so on, go to make up a complete ministry, and are invaluable in their place, yet
the soul and marrow of the gospel is not there, but is to be found in the great fact that "
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit," and so on.
Preach Christ, young man, if you want to win souls. Preach all the doctrines, too, for the building up of believers, but still
the main business is to preach Jesus who came into the world to seek and to save that which was lost.
The apostle tells us in the Corinthians that first of all he delivered unto us as
soul saving truth, "how that Christ died for our sins, according to the Scriptures, and that he was buried, and that he rose again on the third day, according to the Scriptures." Facts about Christ Jesus, and the promise of life through him,
these are the faith of the gospel. . . .
The gospel which is to be vehemently declared is this:-- "
God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory." So long as London is reeking with sin, and millions are going down to hell, let us leave others to prophesy, let us go with anxious hearts to
seek after souls, and see if we cannot by the Spirit's power
win sinners from going down into the pit.You will, doubtless, have observed that this
summary of the gospel is very simple. Whenever you meet with teaching which is cloudy and complicated, you may generally conclude that it is not the gospel of your salvation, for the truth of Christ is so plain that he who runs may read, and the wayfaring man though a fool need not err therein.
Perhaps some of you have been thinking that conversion and salvation are dark and mysterious things, and that you have to pass through many singular operations and feelings in order to be saved. Now, beloved, the whole of our faith lies in a nutshell.
He that believeth in Jesus Christ the incarnate God, is saved.These few truths if grasped by the mind, received and trusted in by the heart, will save you. It is at the cross that salvation must be found. . . .
Bind it about your heart, and defy the hosts of Rome or hell to unloose its folds. Wrap it about your loins in death, and hold it as a standard in both your hands in life. This simple truth, that "Jesus Christ has come to seek and to save that which is lost," and that "whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life," must be your jewel, your treasure, your life.
[Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Volume 13, Year 1867, #786, excerpts from pages 706-708].
Steve Camp Misuses John Owen - Why Am I Not Surprised?
Steve Camp is a card-carrying member of the "born again before faith" club and frequently demonstrates that teaching and theology are most definitely
not his calling. In this article, Brother Bob Ross discusses Steve's misuse of John Owen.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
JOHN OWEN (1616-1683) VERSUS THE "ORDER SALUTIS" OF POST-17TH CENTURY PEDOBAPTISTS [10/12--2007]John Owen, one of the most notable Puritan pastors of the 17th century, also a leading theologian at Oxford University and at times a chaplain to Oliver Cromwell, is often cited by our current crop of Hybrid Calvinists. A case in point recently aroused my attention.
The singer,
Steve Camp, likes to dabble in theology, and I saw a notice on
James White's web site where Steve was holding forth on the pedobaptist
shibboleth which Hybrid Calvinists are wont to call the
"ordo salutis" -- (or, as it might more appropriately be called, the "
ordo pollutus," for it is a pollution of the Creedal view on Effectual Calling) -- and that Steve could be heard on MP3 on the "
Iron Sharpens Iron" blog.
At that site, I read the following introduction to the audio:
>>
STEVE CAMP, Grammy Award winning song writer, Christian recording artist, theologically Reformed apologist, controversial Christian blogger and founder of audienceONE Ministries (see http://www.a1m.org/) will address one of the most highly debated themes within Christendom for nearly two millennia, "
THE ORDO SALUTIS: the Biblical Sequence of Stages Involved in Salvation (& How Their Order Effects Evangelism)".
>>
http://sharpens.blogspot.com/2007/10/
steve-camp-ordo-salutis-biblical.htmlI listened to the usual palabber which characterizes those who repeat the pedobaptist-invented "ordo salutis," and although Steve did not throw any "new light" on the idea that a sinner is
"born again" (saved) before believing in Christ, he did manage to at least cause a chuckle --that is, on my part.
The chuckle came when Steve dropped the name of
JOHN OWEN, and claimed that Owen was one of his "favorite Puritans," and presumably was trying to enlist Owen in the "ordo salutis"
(born again before faith) category.
In view of what Owen taught on
regeneration, it seems unlikely that Steve has read Owen on that subject. Or, if he has, he apparently failed to comprehend what Owen was saying, for
Owen does not support Steve's "ordo salutis."The fact is, Owen (1616-1683) lived
before the post-17th century pedobaptists had "developed" the malarkey they now call the "ordo salutis" [for which see pedobaptist Louis Berkhof's
Systematic Theology, pages 466, 468]. According to Berkhof, the Puritans in Owen's time -- in addition to Luther and Calvin before them -- were "confused" on regeneration and conversion. One of the very best of the "confused" ones on the subject of regeneration is Stephen Charnock at --
>>
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/charnock/
instr_regen/files/instr_regen.html<<
Owen's view was about the same as Charnock's and his co-pastor,
Thomas Watson's, for
Owen did not advocate that regeneration (new birth) "precedes" faith (See Owen's
Works, Volume 6, pages 595-598).
Here are a few quotes from Owen which indicate that he held to the Creedal view of
Effectual Calling by both the Word and Spirit:
>>
Secondly, It [the Gospel] is salvation efficiently, in that
it is the great instrument which God is pleased to use in and for the collation and bestowing salvation upon his elect. Hence the apostle calls it "the power of God unto salvation," Romans 1:16; because
God in and by it exerts his mighty power in the saving of them that believe; as it is again called, 1 Corinthians 1:18.
Hence there is
a saving power ascribed unto the word itself. And therefore Paul commits believers unto "the word of grace," as that which "is able to build them up, and give them an inheritance among all them which are sanctified," Acts 20:32. And James calls it "the ingrafted word, which is able to save our souls," chapter 1:21;
the mighty power of Christ being put forth in it, and accompanying it, for that purpose. But this will the better appear if we consider the several principal parts of this salvation, and the
efficiency of the word as the instrument of God in the communication of it unto us; as,
1. In the
regeneration and sanctification of the elect, the first external act of this salvation. This is
wrought by the word, 1 Peter 1:23: "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible,
by the word of God;" wherein not only the thing itself, or our
regeneration by the word, but the manner of it also, is declared.
It is by the collation of a new spiritual life upon us, whereof the word is the seed. As every life proceeds from some seed, that hath in itself virtually the whole life, to be educed from it by natural ways and means,
so the word in the hearts of men is turned into a vital principle, that, cherished by suitable means, puts forth vital acts and operations.
By this means we are "born of God" and "quickened," who "by nature are children of wrath, dead in trespasses and sins."
So Paul tells the Corinthians that he had "begotten them in Christ Jesus through the gospel," 1 Corinthians 4:15. I confess it doth not do this work by any power resident in itself, and always necessarily accompanying its administration; for then all would be so regenerated unto whom it is preached, and there would be no neglecters of it. But it is
the instrument of God for this end; and mighty and powerful through God it is for the accomplishment of it. And this gives us our first real interest in the salvation which it doth declare. Of the same use and efficacy is it in the progress of this work, in our sanctification, by which we are carried on towards the full enjoyment of this salvation. So our Savior prays for his disciples, John 17:17, "Sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth," as the means and instrument of their sanctification; and he tell his apostles that they were "clean through the word that he had spoken unto them," chapter 15:3. For it is the food and nourishment whereby the principle of spiritual life which we receive in our regeneration is cherished and increased, 1 Peter 2:2; and so able to "build us up," until it "give us an inheritance among them that are sanctified." (Owen on Hebrews 2, Vol. I, pages 364, 364 of the CD-ROM).
Also, from Owen's
Works, Volume 6, pages 597, 598:
>>
1.
Regeneration doth not in order of time precede the soul's interest in the forgiveness that is with God, or its being made partaker of the pardon of sin. I say no more but that
it doth not precede it in order of time, not determining which hath precedency in order of nature. That, I confess, which the method of the gospel leads unto is, that absolution, acquitment, or the pardon of sin, is the foundation of the communication of all saving grace unto the soul, and so precedeth all grace in the sinner whatever. But because this absolution or pardon of sin is to be
received by faith, whereby the soul is really made partaker of it and all the benefits belonging thereunto, and that
faith is the radical grace which we receive in our regeneration, "for it is by faith that our hearts are purified,
as an instrument in the hand of the great purifier, the Spirit of God," I place these two
together, and shall not dispute as to their priority in nature; but in time the
one doth not precede the other. . . .
When convinced persons cried out, "What shall we do to be saved?" the answer was, "Believe, and ye shall be so." "Believe in Christ, and in the remission of sin by his blood," is the first thing that convinced sinners are called unto.
They are not directed first to secure their souls that they are born again, and then afterward to believe; but they are first to believe that the remission of sin is tendered unto them in the blood of Christ, and that "by him they may be justified from all things from which they could not be justified by the law."
>>
Camp is such a Hybrid Calvinist that he alleged that if the pedobaptist "ordo salutis" were widely accepted, it would "
revolutionize evangelism," that it would "
ignite it."
I suppose we have to look to the "
born again before faith" pedobaptists to demonstrate that, don't we?
Pedo evangelism is primarily by "baby baptism," isn't it? If the pedos did not baptize their babies on the presumption that their "covenant children" inherit regeneration,
I wonder how many members they would have in their churches.
And what could possibly be said about how the "
born again before faith" teaching has "ignited" evangelism among the parachurch Flounders organization, which is devoted to promoting the pedobaptist "ordo salutis"? About the only "evangelism" I have heard or seen from the Flounders is in the category of trying to convert Christians to Hybrid Calvinism.
Another Baptist Forefather Against The "Founders"
In his article, Brother Bob Ross discusses another Baptist forefather who stands as a witness against the "born again before faith" heresy promoted by The Founders and their friends. When will Tom Ascol just come out and admit that his organization has little connection with Baptist history and heritage?
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
NEW BOOK ON DAVID JONES (1736-1820).
JONES' VIEW ON NEW BIRTH CONTRASTS TO THE "BORN AGAIN BEFORE FAITH" HERESYBob to Charles:
This past week, Charles, I received my order for copies of
The Life, Journal and Works of David Jones (1736-1820).
This volume is published by friends of mine at
Particular Baptist Press, Springfield, Missouri, who have published some very significant Baptist works over the past several years.
I was especially grateful for the printing of this work, since it upholds the
same view on the New Birth (Regeneration) for which I have campaigned by means of the
Flyswatter, thanks to your cooperation.
This volume reproduces David Jones' Circular Letter to the Philadelphia Association of Churches for the year 1788. It is on the theme of "
SAVING FAITH," and it reads as follows on page 289:
>>
I. It has been the custom of divines, in ages past, to use the word
saving, when treating of this grace; hence it is probable, some have been led to suppose that this grace had something in it so meritorious as to justify the subject before God, at least in a conditional sense; but who ever reads our
Confession of faith, will find that we exclude any such meaning, and only use the word to distinguish true faith from that kind, which is found in unregenerate men and devils.
Saving faith may be thus defined, "That grace whereby the elect are
enabled to believe to the saving of their souls, which is the work of the Spirit of Christ in their hearts, and is ordinarily wrought by the ministry of the word."
By this grace the person is enabled to believe all divine truths revealed in the holy scriptures; and in particular to apprehend the Lord Jesus Christ, and to rely alone on his atoning blood for acceptance in the sight of God. The apostle, speaking of salvation, said, "By grace ye are saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God," Eph. ii. 8. The same apostle informs us that the Ephesians were dead in trespasses and sins, and were by nature the children of wrath even as others; but when the gospel of Christ was preached,
the Holy Ghost working with the word, opened their hearts to receive it, and by his powerful operations implanted this grace, by which they were enabled to believe the record that God has given of his Son. The precious grace of faith is a free and sovereign gift of God,
conveyed through the power of the Holy Ghost, and the instrumentality of the word; and is
co-existent with regeneration, if not an
essential part of it; and as it is not of ourselves, we see that all boasting is excluded, so that we may all say, "by the grace of God, we are what we are."
When the apostle was enumerating the fruits of the Spirit, he mentions faith as one, Gal. v. 22.
This is a truth which everyone, who is born of God, knows, and in substance will acknowledge.
>>
Notice, Charles, that the "powerful operations" of the Spirit
implants enabling grace in the heart by means of the Word.
According to David Jones, faith (believing) and regeneration are
co-existent -- he says faith is conveyed "through the power of the Holy Ghost, and the
instrumentality of the word;" and so faith is said to be "
co-existent with regeneration, if not an essential part of it."
David Jones therefore affirms the creedal or confessional view on the New Birth, and it reveals the unscriptural character of the Hybrid Calvinists who allege that one must be born again before faith, a heresy primarily propagated by the pedobaptist baby baptizers but imbibed by some Baptists who call themselves "Reformed."
Here is another old Baptist, from the original Baptist Association on this continent, who is a witness against the Flounders and others who falsely attempt to align themselves with our Baptist forefathers.
Evangelism According To Timmy Brister
Timmy Brister is again
showing his ignorance. The below is from Brother Bob Ross.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
EVANGELISM ACCORDING TO BRISTER
Bob to Charles:
I would hope, Charles, that SBTS student Timmy Brister is not an example of the type of "evangelism" being taught at the Seminary. I noticed that Timmy is now tutoring on his blog on evangelism, and among other things he says:
"The error in so many gospel presentations or plans of salvation comes when the fail because they have the wrong starting point. We cannot begin with John 3:16 but rather must start with Genesis 1:1. We cannot jump into a discussion about theological truths without establishing a grid through which they are to rightly understand them. Therefore, the reconstruction entails not only the substance of their thinking but the structure of it as well."Well, good luck, Timmy!
The message which converts is the Gospel, not theological views, apologetical arguments, scientific information, or some other category which otherwise may have some degree of religious significance.
It is the Gospel which has the power of the Spirit accompanying it (1 Thess. 1:5; Romans 1:16; 1 Cor. 4:15).
When Jesus dealt with Nicodemus (John 3), He went right for the jugular -- "
You must be born again" -- and the only explaining He did was in teaching and illustrating how a person receives eternal life by faith in Christ and is thereby born again (John 3:14-18). Jesus did not waste time refuting some of Nicodemus' false ideas.
The power of the Holy Spirit to bring sinners to Christ rests upon the Gospel. The carnal mind is capable of repelling human logic, evidences, proofs, etc., but it cannot stand against the Gospel empowered by the Holy Spirit.
If Timmy would study the conversions in the Scriptures, he would see that converts were made by the instrumentality of the Gospel.
C. H. Spurgeon: "
The Gospel is our Mons Meg, the biggest gun in the castle; but it is not out of date: it will carry a ball far enough to reach the heart of the sinner who is furtherest from God. Satan trembles when he hears the roar of the gospel gun. Let it never be silent." (From "The Gospel of the Glory of Christ." #2,077, page 179.
http://www.spurgeongems.org/chs2077.pdfThe entire sermon is one of 35 used in our book, THE GOSPEL ACCORDING TO C. H. SPURGEON.
Labels: Timmy Brister
Another "Bridge To Nowhere"?
Brother Bob Ross posted this today.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
ANOTHER "BRIDGE TO NOWHERE"?I suppose you may have noticed, Charles, that Tom Ascol of the Flounders has announced on his blog the program for the so-called
"Building Bridges Conference," November 26-28, 2007 at Ridgecrest Conference Center in North Carolina.
This appears to be another one of those entities referred to as
"A Bridge to Nowhere" (Google for other examples).
The speakers on the program include Ascol, Daniel Akin, R. Albert Mohler, Tom Nettles and others.
"This historic gathering next month promises to be a wonderful time of fellowship, instruction, worship and encouragement," says Ascol.
For $104 you get to hear 19 speakers and consume 5 meals.
From the Flounders' perspective, I'm sure Ascol and Nettles view this as an opportunity to make some proselytes to the "ordo polluted" Hybrid Calvinism version of "Calvinism," and perhaps attract some new recruits and supporters for the "Friends of the Flounders Movement."
From the perspective of Mohler and Akin, they probably view this as an opportunity to encourage moderation in the tone and temperament of the modern
"Calvimania" among the Hybrid Calvinists, such as the Flounders, blogging seminarians, borderline hypers, and outright hypers.
You know, Charles, I think all of these fellows could learn a lesson from a James Russell Lowell poem which I recall from my high school years,
"The Vision of Sir Launfal" -- wasted time, energy, and wealth searching for the Holy Grail, while the real or more needful opportunity to serve the Lord was lying just outside the castle's gate.
http://www.theotherpages.org/poems/lowell01.html
Steve Camp's "Ordo Pollutus"
Brother Bob Ross has hit another bull's-eye. Enjoy.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
STEVE CAMP'S "ORDO POLLUTUS"Bob to Charles:
Here is an item, Charles, which should at least give you a chuckle.
The singer,
Steve Camp, likes to dabble in theology, and I saw a notice on
James White's web site where Steve was holding forth on the pedobaptist shibboleth which Hybrid Calvinists are wont to call the "
ordo salutis" (or, as it might more appropriately be called, the "
ordo pollutus"), and that Steve could be heard on MP3 on the "
Iron Sharpens Iron" blog.
At that site, I read the following:
>>
STEVE CAMP, Grammy Award winning song writer, Christian recording artist, theologically Reformed apologist, controversial Christian blogger and founder of audienceONE Ministries (see http://www.a1m.org/) will address one of the most highly debated themes within Christendom for nearly two millennia, "
THE ORDO SALUTIS: the Biblical Sequence of Stages Involved in Salvation (& How Their Order Effects Evangelism)".
>>
http://sharpens.blogspot.com/2007/10/
steve-camp-ordo-salutis-biblical.htmlI listened to the usual palabber which characterizing the "ordo salutis," and although Steve did not throw any "new light" on the idea that a sinner is "born again" (saved) before believing in Christ, he did manage to at least cause a chuckle --that is, on my part.
The chuckle came when Steve dropped the name of
JOHN OWEN, and claimed that Owen was one of his "favorite Puritans."
In view of what Owen taught on
regeneration, it seems unlikely that Steve has read Owen on that subject. Or, if he has, he apparently failed to comprehend what Owen was saying, for
Owen does not support Steve's "ordo salutis."Owen (1616-1683) lived before the post-17th century pedobaptists had "developed" the malarkey they now call the "ordo salutis" [for which see Berkhof's
Systematic Theology, pages 466, 468]. According to Berkhof, the Puritans in Owen's time, in addition to Luther and Calvin before them, were "confused" on regeneration and conversion. One of the very best of the "confused" ones on the subject is Stephen Charnock at --
http://www.ccel.org/ccel/charnock/instr_regen/
files/instr_regen.htmlOwen's view was about the same as Charnock's and his co-pastor,
Thomas Watson's, for
Owen did not advocate that regeneration "precedes" faith (See Owen's Works, Volume 6, pages 595-598).
Here are a few quotes from Owen which indicate that he held to the
Creedal view of Effectual Calling by both the Word and Spirit:
>>
Secondly, It [the Gospel] is salvation efficiently, in that
it is the great instrument which God is pleased to use in and for the collation and bestowing salvation upon his elect. Hence the apostle calls it “the power of God unto salvation,” Romans 1:16; because
God in and by it exerts his mighty power in the saving of them that believe; as it is again called, 1 Corinthians 1:18.
Hence there is
a saving power ascribed unto the word itself. And therefore Paul commits believers unto “the word of grace,” as that which “is able to build them up, and give them an inheritance among all them which are sanctified,” Acts 20:32. And James calls it “the ingrafted word, which is able to save our souls,” chapter 1:21;
the mighty power of Christ being put forth in it, and accompanying it, for that purpose. But this will the better appear if we consider the several principal parts of this salvation, and the
efficiency of the word as the instrument of God in the communication of it unto us; as, —
1. In the
regeneration and sanctification of the elect, the first external act of this salvation. This is
wrought by the word, 1 Peter 1:23: “Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God;” wherein not only the thing itself, or our
regeneration by the word, but the manner of it also, is declared.
It is by the collation of a new spiritual life upon us, whereof the word is the seed. As every life proceeds from some seed, that hath in itself virtually the whole life, to be educed from it by natural ways and means,
so the word in the hearts of men is turned into a vital principle, that, cherished by suitable means, puts forth vital acts and operations.
By this means we are “born of God” and “quickened,” who “by nature are children of wrath, dead in trespasses and sins.”
So Paul tells the Corinthians that he had “begotten them in Christ Jesus through the gospel,” 1 Corinthians 4:15. I confess it doth not do this work by any power resident in itself, and always necessarily accompanying its administration; for then all would be so regenerated unto whom it is preached, and there would be no neglecters of it. But it is
the instrument of God for this end; and mighty and powerful through God it is for the accomplishment of it. And this gives us our first real interest in the salvation which it doth declare. Of the same use and efficacy is it in the progress of this work, in our sanctification, by which we are carried on towards the full enjoyment of this salvation. So our Savior prays for his disciples, John 17:17, “Sanctify them through thy truth, thy word is truth,” — as the means and instrument of their sanctification; and he tell his apostles that they were “clean through the word that he had spoken unto them,” chapter 15:3. For it is the food and nourishment whereby the principle of spiritual life which we receive in our regeneration is cherished and increased, 1 Peter 2:2; and so able to “build us up,” until it “give us an inheritance among them that are sanctified.” (Owen on Hebrews 2, Vol. I, pages 364, 364 of the CD-ROM).
Also, from Owen's Works, Volume 6, pages 597, 598:
>>
1.
Regeneration doth not in order of time precede the soul’s interest in the forgiveness that is with God, or its being made partaker of the pardon of sin. I say no more but that
it doth not precede it in order of time, not determining which hath precedency in order of nature. That, I confess, which the method of the gospel leads unto is, that absolution, acquitment, or the pardon of sin, is the foundation of the communication of all saving grace unto the soul, and so precedeth all grace in the sinner whatever. But because this absolution or pardon of sin is to be
received by faith, whereby the soul is really made partaker of it and all the benefits belonging thereunto, and that
faith is the radical grace which we receive in our regeneration, — for it is by faith that our hearts are purified,
as an instrument in the hand of the great purifier, the Spirit of God, — I place these two
together, and shall not dispute as to their priority in nature; but in time the
one doth not precede the other. . . .
When convinced persons cried out, “What shall we do to be saved?” the answer was, “Believe, and ye shall be so.” “Believe in Christ, and in the remission of sin by his blood,” is the first thing that convinced sinners are called unto.
They are not directed first to secure their souls that they are born again, and then afterward to believe; but they are first to believe that the remission of sin is tendered unto them in the blood of Christ, and that “by him they may be justified from all things from which they could not be justified by the law.”
>>
Camp such a Hybrid Calvinist that he alleged that if the pedobaptist "ordo salutis" were widely accepted, it would "
revolutionize evangelism," that it would "
ignite it."
Yeah, Charles, we do have the "
born again before faith" pedobaptists to demonstrate that, don't we? Pedo evangelism is primarily by "baby baptism," isn't it? If the pedos did not baptize their babies on the presumption that their "covenant children" inherit regeneration,
I wonder how many members they would have in their churches.
And what could possibly be said about how the "
born again before faith" teaching has "ignited" evangelism among the Flounders? About the only "evangelism" I have heard or seen from the Flounders is in the category of trying to convert Christians to Hybrid Calvinism.
Timmy Brister's Bristlings
The audacity of Timmy Brister is beyond words. He attends a Southern Baptist seminary which is paid for by the hard earned dollars of Southern Baptist laymen in Southern Baptist churches. He no doubt gladly accepts the tuition discount which all students from Southern Baptist churches receive and again, is paid by money from SBC churches. Yet Timmy publicly and consistently attacks SBC leaders, polity, and churches over and over again in his blog. SBC churches: He doesn't mind taking your money but he doesn't mind spitting in your face either. Go figure.
In this article, Brother Bob Ross has uncovered more of the theological madness that is Timmy Brister, this time in the form of Timmy's views on what he calls "decisional regeneration." It seems that Timmy rejects what nearly every Southern Baptist church believes:
That an ACT on the sinner's part is involved in opening the heart and receiving Jesus as Lord and Savior.
Incredibly, after rejecting what SBC churches believe, Timmy has the gall to
demand that these same churches call men like him as pastor!
Southern Baptist churches, agencies, and institutions should take note of Timmy Brister. If you read his blog you'll find a bitter man who spends very little time in the way of evangelism and missions but a lot of time tearing down Southern Baptists.
Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
BRISTER'S BRISTLINGSBob to Charles:
Southern Seminary student, Timmy Brister, the novice who conceives of himself as a "Calvinist," is once again bristling on his blog in regard to terminology about "opening your heart" to accept Christ. See
http://timmybrister.com/2007/10/04/
decisional-regeneration-and-southern-baptist-eisegesis/#more-1626It seems that ever so often the Hybrid Calvinist types like Timmy are constrained by righteous indignation to "let off steam" against some of the terms and methods which he considers to be in the category of "
decisional regeneration," and I suppose this is one of those periods with Timmy.
Since Timmy claims to be a reader and admirer of
C. H. Spurgeon, I sent him one of Spurgeon's comments about "opening the heart to the Lord" which might serve as spiritual seltzer to "settle his stomach:"
>>
Dear Timmy:
In view of your interest in the expression "
open your heart," I thought you might like to consider Spurgeon's approach. --
"It is perfectly true that the work of salvation lies first and mainly in Jesus receiving sinners to himself, to pardon, to cleanse, to sanctify, to preserve, to make perfect; but, at the same time, the sinner also receives Christ;
there is an act on the sinner’s part by which, being constrained by divine grace,
he openeth his heart to the admission of Jesus Christ, and Jesus enters in, and thenceforth dwells in the heart, and reigns and rules there. To a gracious readiness of heart to entertain the friend who knocks at the door, we are brought by God the Holy Ghost, and then he sups with us and we with him." [sermon #669 —
An Open Heart For a Great Saviour, MTP Vol 12, Year 1866, page 13, John 1:12-13]
In another sermon appeal, Spurgeon said —
"Oh I wish some of you would thus respond to my appeal this day! This thing is also from the Lord: it was he who gave me this message; it was he who brought you to hear it. Surely you will not be found fighting against God. Your heart is open to him; he sees the faintest desire that you have toward him. Breathe out your wish now, and say, '
My heart is before thee: take it.' " [sermon #2231 —
An Urgent Request For an Immediate Answer, MTP Vol 37, Year 1891, page 599, Genesis 24:49]
On the matter of "decision," it might be well to consider Spurgeon's remarks in the sermon, "An Urgent Request for an Immediate Answer." In this sermon, Spurgeon addresses his hearers, "But we are the more determined to
press you for some DECISION," and "I pray that God's Spirit may lead you to an
immediate DECISION." [pages 596, 599]
http://72.14.205.104/search?q=cache:3MtYpiM_DzcJ:
www.pilgrimpublications.com/invite1.htm+spurgeon+open+heart&
hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&ie=UTF-8
>>
Timmy's bristlings are rather characteristic of many who adopt the "born again before faith" Hybrid Calvinism of the pedobaptist theologians, such as one of Timmy's favorites, Iain Murray, who is expert in nitpicking terms and methods which he thinks are undermining of "pre-faith regeneration."
Labels: Timmy Brister
More Blundering From Brister
Brother Bob Ross has uncovered this jewel from Timmy Brister, a troubled blogger whose capacity to "
bend" the truth seems to hold no bounds. Brister says that the SBC would be improved by putting more people like him in leadership. ROFL!
Several months ago I issued a
challenge to Brister which has gone unanswered. Now it seems he has crawled out from under his rock to take more pot shots at Southern Baptists while at the same time attending a Southern Baptist seminary paid for by the very churches he thinks are in need of
deform "reform."
For more on Brister, see
Timmy Brister's Baloney Charles
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
IS THIS AN ULTIMATUM BY SBTS STUDENT BLOGGER?If the Southern Baptist Convention is going to see churches revitalized, old churches replanted, and new church plants embraced, then they are going to have to extend the right hand of fellowship to the young Calvinists exiting the seminary with a willingness to be taught and led from God’s Word. . . . Finally, the Convention at large is going to have to develop a consensus on the gospel that embraces “five-point Calvinists” and encourages guys like me, not discourages us, to pursue pastorates in existing churches.
These are excerpts, Charles, from Timmy Brister's blog (Provocations and Paintings), and it sounds to me like an ultimatum --
Make room for the Hybrid form of "Calvinism" if the SBC wants to prosper.
In addition to Brister, if I understand Tom Ascol of the Flounders correctly, he is promoting the idea that "reformation" [meaning, reforming according to Hybrid Calvinism] must precede any real expectation for revival.
So, it seems, Charles that whatever is needed by the
Southern Baptist Convention (which the Flounders have already declared to be "an unregenerate denomination") will be forthcoming if the Convention will "reform" to Hybrid Calvinism and install young SBTS Hybrid Calvinist graduates as pastors.
Labels: Timmy Brister
